Topic: 02/16/2010 Individual and Team Rankings (Read 1341 times)

warp57 · « **on:** February 16, 2010, 09:13:49 AM »

I fleshed out what I could from recent feedback and results. Thank You to all. What you will notice is Lash dropped to #2 @ 125. Reason being, no one can say for sure that Lash will make 125. He obviously has weight cutting issues. He missed weight at New Englands last year and missed weight at least twice this year and rumor has it maybe even three times (some one told me that they let him "slide" at Peru, NY). No one has come out and said definitively that he will wrestle at states and if he does at what weight. I was inclined to take him out of the rankings completely but held off.

I mistakingly had Flynn from Vergennes ranked at both 140 and 145. I paired that down to just 140. Stratton moved in front of Weyant. I also went three deep on best wrestlers per class.

I think most programs have concluded their regular season. I certainly welcome the feedback and will consider one more update before states. In order to do that I need more feedback. If kids are bumping around for states, let me know so I can accurately adjust the rankings. Also please check my accuracy on what year these kids are and post a reply with any corrections etc. Thanks.

Team Rankings-Dual
1. Mt. Anthony (MAU)
2. Spaulding
3. Mt. Anthony “B” Team (MAU-B)
4. Otter Valley
5. Vergennes
6. Rutland
7. Essex
8. Fair Haven
9. Mt. Mansfield (MMU)
10. Middlebury

Top wrestlers per class:
Senior: Mike Bradley-119-MAU, Steven Rich-160-Spaulding, Sam Webster-285-MAU
Junior: Ben Price-135-MAU, George Mitchell-130-Otter Valley, Smith Stratton-112-MAU
Sophomore: Zak Hale-125-MAU, Chris Schramm-103-MAU, Chris Lash-?-Colchester
Freshman: Bobby Briganti-135-Colchester, Kyle Streeter-215-Harwood, Brandon Marcoux-Schaefer-152-MAU

Top 5 wrestlers, pound-for-pound:
1. Mike Bradley-119-SR-MAU
2. Steven Rich-160-SR-Spaulding
3. Ben Price-135-JR-MAU
4. George Mitchell-130-JR-Otter Valley
5. Sam Webster-285-MAU

Deepest Weight Classes
1. 125
2. 152
3. 130

103
1. Chris Schramm-SO-MAU (09 JV State Champ @ 103)
2. Nick Eddy-Colchester (09 3rd @ 103)
3. Joey McCoy-Otter Valley
4. Jody Fabian-Fair Haven
5. Trevor Morrill-SO-MMU
Honorable Mention: Brooke Davis-Mill River, Cody Jolley-Spaulding, Ryan Kent-Rutland

112
1. Smith Stratton-JR-MAU (09 Runner up @ 103)
2. Cyle Weyant-JR-Bellows Falls (09 Champ @ 103)
3. Seth Harrington-JR-Otter Valley (09 4th @ 103)
4. Rick Sawyer-SR-MMU
5. Derrick St. George-Middlebury
Honorable Mention: Shane Doran-Fair Haven, Nick Roucoulette-Rutland,
Patrick Walker-Colchester

119
1. Mike Bradley-SR-MAU (09 Runner up @ 112, 4th @ NE)
2. Devin Sandon-SR-Essex
3. Andrew Allen-Mill River
4. Kaleb Fushey-Milton
5. Ben Cook-Otter Valley
Honorable Mention: Andy Gurin-FRO-Spaulding

125
1. Zak Hale-SO-MAU (09 3rd @ 119)
2. Chris Lash-SO-Colchester (09 Champ @ 112)-(Only a guess that he makes 125)
3. Tadd Bliss-JR-MMU
4. Ricky Karzmarczyk-SR-Vergennes
5. Liston Gauthier-JR-MAU "B"
Honorable Mention: Allen Kent-Rutland, Rick Kline-Essex, Mike Brouillard-Otter Valley

130
1. George Mitchell-JR-Otter Valley (09 Champ @ 125)
2. Tyler White-SO-MAU (09 5th @125)
3. Jarrod Ashley-Middlebury
4. Charlie Kline-Essex (09 4th @ 119)
5. Justin Barich-Colchester
Honorable Mention: RJ Kovarick-Rutland, Kyle Auger-Fair Haven (09 6th @ 135),
Matt Karzmarczyk-Vergennes

135
1. Ben Price-JR-MAU (09 did not compete in states due to injury)
2. Mike Smith-SR-Rutland (09 3rd @ 140)
3. Seth Welch-Fair Haven (09 4th @ 130)
4. Cody Murray-Middlebury
5. Bobby Briganti-FRO-Colchester (09 MS Champ @ 120)
Honorable Mention: Ryan Stearns-CVU, Jordan Felion-Fair Haven

140
1. Jimmy Zupko-JR-MAU (09 3rd @ 135)
2. Matt Simpson-SR-Randolph (09 3rd @ 125)
3. Simon Flynn-SR-Vergennes (09 4th @ 140)
4. Nick Meunier-CVU
5. JJ Ciaramitaro-Middlebury

145
1. Zach Weinfurt-SR-MAU (09 3rd @ 145)
2. Zeb Benoit-Harwood
3. Kaden O’Dell-Middlebury
4. Alex Alger-JR-Otter Valley (09 4th @ 135)
5. Artie Busano-Spaulding
Honorable Mention: Cody Goodrich-Rutland, Chris Perrault-SO-St. Johnsbury

152
1. Devin Grammo-JR-Colchester (09 Runner up @ 145)
2. Bryan Ashley Selleck-SR-Middlebury (09 3rd @ 152)
3. Paschal Perrrotte-SR-Mt. Mansfield (09 3rd @ 160)
4. Evan Bilodeau-SR-Spaulding
5. Morgan Stinchfield-Vergennes (09 4th @ 160)
Honorable Mention: Brandon Marcoux-Schaefer-FRO-MAU, Gavin Tyson-Rutland,
Logan Young-Colchester

160
1. Steven Rich-SR-Spaulding (09 Champ @ 160)
2. Mahkmud Kachaliyev-Harwood
3. Justin Felion-SR-Fair Haven (09 5th @ 152)
4. Clark Poston-Essex
5. Geoffrey Grant-Vergennes
Honorable Mention: Jason Welch-JR-MAU, Joseph Bussiere-St.Johnsbury,
Mike McCarroll-Rutland

171
1. Spencer Foucher-SO-MAU (09 5th @ 171)
2. Taylor Dorsett-SR-Spaulding
3. Sam Fortin-SO-CVU (09 6th @ 152)
4. Jacob Kernan-JR-Harwood
5. Rob Fjeld-Otter Valley
Honorable Mention: Dalton Bowen-Fair Haven, Hans Mueller-Middlebury

189
1. Jared Rich-SO-Spaulding
2. Tanner Palermo-SR-Milton (09 4th @ 171)
3. Brad Sawyer-SR-MAU (09 5th @ 189)
4. Morgan Angell-Randolph
5. Sadar Kachaliyev-Harwood
Honorable Mention: Tom Francis-SR-MMU, Seamus Page-Essex, Alex Smith-Otter Valley,

215
1. Adam Reed-JR-Spaulding (09 3rd @ 215)
2. Justin Bassler-JR-MAU (09 JV 2nd @ 215)
3. Evan Bathalon-SR-Otter Valley
4. Kyle Streeter-FRO-Harwood (09 MS & NE Champ @ 210)
5. Riley Simoneau-SO-North Country
Honorable Mention: Aaron Desabrais-Vergennes (09 4th @ 215), Tyler Raymond-MMU, Morgan Angell-Randolph

285
1. Sam Webster-SR-MAU (3x JV State Champ)
2. Aaron Bosch-Mill River
3. Trey Hudson-Essex
4. Eric Decker-Colchester
5. Andrew Spooner-Mt. Abraham (09 4th @ 285)
Honorable Mention: Shaun Mills-Otter Valley

vtfan8 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:26:41 AM »

I dont want to drag this out but you seem hell bent on Ben Price being ranked higher and higher pound for pound. You just raised him to 3rd overall and first Junior year. As for Junior year you have him ranked ahead of two nationaly ranked juniors (Mitchell, Stratton, Weyant). Mitchell and Weyant are defending state champs. Mitchell is the December athlete of the month in the state of VT. This is crazy! The evidence offered about Mitchell loosing to Smith in a different weight class is irelavent. Pound for pound ahead of Lash, Hale, Webster (1 loss), Gammo, and about 4 other NE ranked kids. The NE rankings are very relavent. Is your definition of pound for pound limited to thier dominance within a weight class in state? If so, I agree with the Bradley, Rich, Price breakdown. I just want to point out that we need to try and keep our opinions as objective possible and keep whatever personal connections we have out of a link pertaining to rankings.

warp57 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2010, 01:52:29 PM »

Who/what publication ranked Weyant and Stratton Nationally? I missed that one. I would have liked to have had that information before I updated the rankings. Please put the link on the web site in your next post.

You want to make relevant only what seems to favor Mr. Mitchell. You want to consider the "December Athlete of the Month" award (not sure what relevence that has in ranking a kid) but discount an in-state loss. Keep in mind it was Mitchell's choice to bump up and wrestle Smith and it didn't go Mitchell's way. Those things do happen.

Regarding last year's state championships, those are last years awards. I am ranking kids based upon this year's achievements and to a lesser degree their placement last year. Price hasn't lost in VT this year and has an equally impressive record as George and in my opinion Price has wrestled a more difficult schedule.

Lash is hard to put up there since he regularly misses weight and I am not sure if he is even wrestling in states and if he does, what weight class he is going. If you know, please share it with us.

My pound for pound is for VT. These are VT rankings. So from the sounds you agree with me on the pound for pound. Regarding the NE rankings. They are done by someone (like me) who cares about the sport and takes the time to attempt to put together some assemblance of a ranking. It is based upon results etc but also has an element of subjectivity to it as all rankings do in any sport anywhere. What is important to remember is that I am sure that you and me know these kids better than someone behind a computer in Mass putting together NE rankings based upon what he reads on other forums.

Rankings are imperfect and will never make everyone happy. It wouldn't be any fun if that happened. I have no personal connection to Price or any other individual wrestler. I do not have a kid wrestling in high school or middle school. I think we can agree to disagree on the Mitchell vs. Price top wrestler per class discussion (Stratton is right in their too. I think you can "throw a blanket over all of them" in my honest opinion). That is "what makes the world go round." It is nice to finally see "some life" on this site. The real "rankings" take place on Feb 27th. Good luck to all you guys!

warp57 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2010, 02:06:49 PM »

vtfan8 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2010, 04:31:54 PM »

It was the 4/15/09 issue of USA Wrestling Magazine where Mitchell was listed as horable mention nationally. I can't find the issue that mentioned Weyant but will find it when I have a chance. I did'nt mean to include Statton. I know I know.... you'll say that was last year but to be the only kid his age (only vermonter for that matter) mentioned nationally at the conclusion of last year should speak for itself. This debate isn't going anywhere in spite of the evidence I've provided so let's just end it. Going any further would seem like I'm against Price which is not the case.... great wrestler great kid. I'm just on the record (with evidence) that Mitchell, Stratton, and Weyant have what I believe is a stonger case for best Junior.

The schedule agruement works both ways. Yes, MAU has a tougher schedule but using the pound pound (only VT) arguement.... Mitchell wrestles more in VT, therefore, has more oppurtunity to loose in VT.

By the way... nothing personeal just good healthy debate

warp57 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2010, 05:16:27 PM »

I agree, healthy debate is good.

Nothing personal taken VTfan8. I agree all 4 deserve to be in the discussion, no doubt. I had to pick 1 (no disrespect meant to the other 3). From a personal perspective all four seem to be "good kids" which isn't always the case.

What is good, is that such a debate is even taking place in VT. It means to me that we (VT) are putting out some pretty talent throughout the state despite our small size. We have people talking wrestling in VT which is also good for our sport!

69 mustang · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2010, 05:45:55 PM »

what would be great is to see these kids places at NewEnglands i think they all have a chance to show the other states how good VT wrestling is

mau 112 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:55:15 PM »

october15,2009 issueUSA Wrestling magz,103 lbs Smith Satratton,,,, Mt Anthony ,,,,Cyle Weyant ,,special mention, best 2009-10 high school juniors

mau 112 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2010, 11:05:44 PM »

Oct 15 issue USA W resrling Magz,125 special mention,,,Juniors George Mitchell ,,Otter Vally

speed622 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:20:22 AM »

Warp thank you for the website, vtfan thank you for your opinions. we dont know what weight class lash is going. but my guess is up. Vtfan i am not Mau but i have to put price as the top junior . my reasoning. price picked apart mike smith 11-6 , mike smith rode Mitchell out for 4 minutes. and won 2-0. now i forget some where in this blog or last week's rankings someone talk about weyant and Mitchell both being state champs, that's why they should be at the top. i agree with the point and i am not making excuses for price but he was injured. and would of gave Mitchell a run for his money at states last year. that's why i do not think price gets is much praise as the other 2. now do i think price is a way better wrestler then Mitchell and would Kick his ass? no. i think it would be a one point match. and i do agree with new England rankings it is just one guy opinion. and i am not saying his opinions are bad. but they are not real accurate, because rarely top ranked kids from vermont wrestle the top ranked kids from all the other NE states. the rankings we have for are website are pretty accurate, because we all wrestle each other a good amount and have a good feel for each other. in essence we all know who the 1 or 2 top dogs are for each weight class.

mau 112 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2010, 05:53:39 AM »

Stratton,,,,,,MASS 3,5th nNEranking,RI 2,,9th NE RANKINGS,CONN,2,8TH NE RANKINGS,,VT 2,, 7 NE RANKINGS, Thats a tough bunch,,,look no one has wrestled the number of NE ranked guys,,,and conn 1,,not ranked in NE that i dont understand,and last yrs statechamp at 112,,,,,why jennings is not in NE at all,i cant figure,

vtfan8 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2010, 10:32:19 AM »

So your agruement is that Mitchell lost 2-0 when bumping up in weight class to the number 2 @ 135?

Does Price walk through 140?? So pound for pound or class rankings should be based on a wrestlers ability to beat the best kids in the weight classes above them? If so, we better make some serious adjustments to these rankings. Simple..... Webster #1 nobody else even close. This is absolutely crazy. I have to admit this is gettiing frustrating.... I enjoy a debate but after you present overwhelming evidence (NE ranking, National Ranking, Returning State Chamionship, Overall Record VS lost once by 2 bumping up, NE rankings don't mean anything even though 6 MAU guys are ranked based on the same schedule Price had, National recognition being irrelavent) and its still not accepted......... I don't know what to say. What would happen if this was a more marginal debate. Can't win here......this is crazy!! You know what else is crazy? I agree with you for the most part. If Price came down or Mitchell went up it would be very close (go either way maybe even slight edge to Price). He is a very good wrestler. MY POINT HERE has been to debate based on FACTS which is what I hope the intent of Warps much appreciated posting was. Based on the FACTS the best Juniors are Weyant, Mitchell, and Startton and they deserve the credit they earned. I'm not getting into pound for pound again. CRAZY!!

speed622 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:36:03 PM »

ok enough debating because i could go on all day long. the fact is that they are all very good wrestlers. and states should be fun.

Bliss77 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2010, 04:43:10 PM »

LOL Webster #1 nobody even close i would like to test this out. Do you think Reed would give him a close match, or maybe Palermo or rich

Hypnotic22 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2010, 04:57:43 PM »

I think warp has a good thing going. If Price were to bump up or down a weight class i believe that he would do good in either weight class seeing how he beat the #2 ranked kid at 140 last year during season. If mitchell were to move down he would have to face hale (which would be a good match), and lash ( another good match). And if mitchell were to go up he had trouble with smith, so he would still have welch and price. Either way its close. They both are great kids and good wrestlers. Rankings can never be just right, but again warps doing a good job.

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AuthorTopic: 02/16/2010 Individual and Team Rankings (Read 1341 times)

warp57

02/16/2010 Individual and Team Rankings

Vermont Wrestling

02/16/2010 Individual and Team Rankings

vtfan8

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warp57

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warp57

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vtfan8

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warp57

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69 mustang

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mau 112

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mau 112

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speed622

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mau 112

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vtfan8

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speed622

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Bliss77

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Hypnotic22

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